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Documentary Filmmakers

Public Group active 1 month ago

A group dedicated to discussions about non-narrative films.

Documentary Filmmaking Help. (21 posts)

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  • Avatar Image Caleb Herring said 3 months, 3 weeks ago:

    I recently watched a very good documentary (PressPausePlay) and it got me interested in making a documentary. So, what is the complete process of making a documentary? I’ve Googled the subject, it has pretty much all said the same thing. I have turned to the magical filmmaking forum here at Filmmaker IQ.

    Director, Producer, Geek, Sleeper, and Professional Slacker.
    Caleb Herring.
  • Avatar Image numballover said 3 months, 3 weeks ago:

    Wow. How to start? I have done quite a few documentaries, some where I simply did extra camera work for a day, and a few that I was on the production team for the entire project.

    Here is the trailer for the latest one that I’m working on, that is currently in post:. Lights out in Blackham

    So let me give a basic run down on what I think of documentaries.

    What makes documentaries easier for filmmakers
    In many regards a documentary is a great way to start filmmaking for the following reasons:

    1) Much less equipment is needed – a basic lighting package, any HD camera, and some sound gear and you are set. The trailer I linked to is done with a 5D, a 7D, a Zoom H4, and a light kit that costs under $500.

    2) It requires less crew – The above doc is done with a full time crew of only 4 people, with about 4 others in rotation helping from time to time, and 2 people being brought on now for post work.

    3) It’s easier to get funding – Because docs usually have a cause associated with them, its often easier to raise funding. The above doc raised $3500 on kickstarter to start the project, and later we raised more than 10 times that amount through a fund raising event.

    4) Shoot when you want – You don’t have to plan a 3 week spree of 12 hour days. In fact, that usually isn’t even possible. Shooting ‘Lights Out’ was done over the course of six months, usually shooting about 5 days a month. All of the crew, aside from myself, has a full-time job (I work as a sound person for feature films on contract).

    5) Easy to sell – You aren’t competing against the whole world of entertainment. Instead you have a built in niche audience. If your doc is about paintball, then people who are fanatical about paintball will almost certainly want to see it.

    The downside of documentaries

    1) It requires a ton of research – Depending on the subject you have to delve deep into your topic to make a meaningful doc, especially if the doc is about a historical subject. Lights Out is about an incident in the 1970’s which led to the University of Lafayette being suspended from the NCAA. Going back even that far can be difficult to find relevant stock footage, or even people who know about the event well enough to talk about it.

    2) Long post process – There is no script. You don’t necessarily know what your movie is about until you start getting into post. Because of this you end up shooting 50 to 100 hours of footage. Expect to be in post at least nine months.

    3) You need a badass editing computer – To deal with 100 hours of footage you need some serious storage space with lots of redundancy. That article about the streaming server is a good place to start. So expect to spend upwards of $3000 on a good editing setup.

    4) You won’t get rich – While it’s easier to sell, there is pretty much zero chance of you making a millions of dollars. However, $300,000 to $500,000 is not an unheard of profit for a good broadcast quality doc. Manage to make one every two or three years and you can make a pretty decent living.

    The Process
    To answer your initial question more directly…there is no set process. Typically the best thing to do is to do a bunch of interviews and from those interviews try to determine what your story is going to be. From there, film some b-roll and get additional interviews if necessary. Then add stock footage.

    The process for documentaries is quite fluid. You may edit it to 80% completion and realize you need more footage to fill in the gaps. Unlike a narrative film, its not that expensive to just start shooting again.

    On the other end of the spectrum some documentaries film ZERO footage themselves. One popular example of this is Zeitgeist.

  • Avatar Image numballover said 3 months, 3 weeks ago:

    Also…sometimes some documentaries completely fall apart. I started a doc not too long ago about an off the wall candidate for Senate who challenged the local incumbent to a UFC cage fight. I followed him both on the campaign trail, as well as during training. I got some incredible footage that would have made a great story.

    Unfortunately, the local boxing commission refused to sanction the fight based on my subjects health and age. Without the fight at the end, there wasn’t much story so I had to abandon the project. This is a pretty major concern if you are doing a documentary about something that is currently in progress.

  • Avatar Image John P. Hess said 3 months, 3 weeks ago:

    Okay, so here’s the way I look at it.

    Narrative film (the typical film you see in a theater) starts with a writer who has an idea and drafts up a script. Then the production team goes out and shoots the material needed to tell the story and the editor puts it together based on the script.

    Documentary film is where a producer starts with an idea. Then they go out and shoot a bunch of material plus stuff they think they need. Then the editor looks at the material and organizes it – essentially creating a script from what was captured.

    So Narrative goes Script->Shoot->Edit and Documentary goes Shoot->Script->Edit

    And there’s variations and variations on that as well.

    Documentaries are more popular that we give them credit for. All news packages on TV are docs. The vast majority of programs on TV are documentary, “realty TV” is essentially a documentary (though certain ones blend fact and fiction).

    The two essential elements of a documentary are primary/secondary footage and b-roll.

    The primary footage is footage that you shot of the subject matter as it’s happening. Say you want to make a documentary about a legendary rock concert. The primary footage is the footage you shot at the concert (with permission hopefully). Secondary footage is interviews with people who tell the story about that rock concert. They are secondary because they’re telling the story to you “second hand”

    B-roll is footage that has to do with the subject being discussed. It’s used to add interest to the documentary and can color it in certain ways. For instance if you were doing a documentary on printing money, your b-roll would be rolls of money being printed and cut.

    Then there’s all sorts of other things like reenactments, narration, graphics/archival photos that can be used as well.

    What do you want to make a documentary on?

  • Avatar Image 8thSamurai said 3 months, 3 weeks ago:

    Documentaries are also harder than narratives.

    Find your story. If you don’t have a focus, all you have is a rambling pile of footage that goes nowhere.

    So yes, you do write a script first. No, it is not like a screenplay. More like a series of questions you want answered, and b roll desired to emphasize your point. Like with a narrative, the script can change over time, as you hone your focus.

    Why it’s harder: getting people to agree to be interviewed/finding your b roll/doing those re enactments.

    They take much longer to create than a narrative, for a much lower potential financial return. With a narrative, you pretty much know what you need and what you have to do to get there. With doc, a new question or cut can completely change the focus or message of the documentary.

  • Avatar Image Caleb Herring said 3 months, 3 weeks ago:

    @Gospel_John said:
    What do you want to make a documentary on?

    It came across me the other day, it is harder to be an artist of any type outside of Los Angeles or New York City. Not impossible, but hard. SOOOOoooooo…. I thought I’d make a documentary out of it. I have various people I could interview. The main thing I’m worried about is funding. I tried starting a Kickstarter and IndieGoGo fundraiser for this, but, my parents would not give me their bank info.

  • Avatar Image John P. Hess said 3 months, 3 weeks ago:

    @raindancepictureshow said:
    It came across me the other day, it is harder to be an artist of any type outside of Los Angeles or New York City. Not impossible, but hard. SOOOOoooooo…. I thought I’d make a documentary out of it. I have various people I could interview. The main thing I’m worried about is funding. I tried starting a Kickstarter and IndieGoGo fundraiser for this, but, my parents would not give me their bank info.

    Start small.

    Do you know anyone who is an artist? Go to them and tape an interview. Shoot b-roll. Put together a video package on that artist.

    This should cost you no money.

    Start there before involving money.

  • Avatar Image 8thSamurai said 3 months, 3 weeks ago:

    It came across me the other day, it is harder to be an artist of any type outside of Los Angeles or New York City. Not impossible, but hard. SOOOOoooooo…. I thought I’d make a documentary out of it. I have various people I could interview. The main thing I’m worried about is funding. I tried starting a Kickstarter and IndieGoGo fundraiser for this, but, my parents would not give me their bank info.

    Your parents are right.

    1. Who would the audience be for this? I know plenty of people who’ve never set foot in either city, or have left, that are doing just fine. The caveats – they’re actually good, and they work their butts off.

    You’d have to really, really convince people that this isn’t a whole bunch of people that aren’t motivated enough to move, or are too lazy to work for it, just whining about how hard it is. (‘Too lazy’ in the art world = quite a bit of success in a normal 9-5, btw.) I know a guy who lives in a teeny town in northern Canada who does quite well with his illustration work now. He busted tail to hone his skills, got involved in communities online, and it paid off.

    I know people all over the world who’ve carved out niches for themselves in everything from fine art to jewelry design to sculpture – because they’re damn good and work hard. That equation doesn’t magically change via geography.

    And agreed with John. Do the damn interview and b-roll. You don’t need funding for that. Your folks might take you more seriously, if you’re being serious.

    We’re in the time of democratization of tools. You obviously have a computer. There are free and cheap post production tools. Cameras have never offered more quality at a lower price point. A basic lighting kit can be assembled for under $100. We have thousands of tutorials right here.

  • Avatar Image Matt said 3 months, 3 weeks ago:

    Thanks this had some good info. Where are some good sites to find equipment at a reduced price?

  • Avatar Image John P. Hess said 3 months, 3 weeks ago:

    @guntotheheadpro said:
    Thanks this had some good info. Where are some good sites to find equipment at a reduced price?

    eBay… but you have to know what you want to buy…

  • Avatar Image Simon Hosick said 3 months, 3 weeks ago:

    @guntotheheadpro said:
    Thanks this had some good info. Where are some good sites to find equipment at a reduced price?

    Start with the project first and figure out the kit you’ll need. If it’s all interviews and arty shots, a DSLR would be great (two would be better), but you’ll need a good and heavy tripod, lights and sound equipment. If it’s a run and gun, you’ll need a sturdy, versatile camera with an xlr mic input.

    Make sure that which ever you choose, batteries are easy to find. For my first documentary interview, I packed everything including the kitchen sink… except for the battery pack.

  • Avatar Image 8thSamurai said 3 months, 3 weeks ago:

    If it’s all interviews, I would totally avoid a DSLR if possible. They’re great for shallow DOF shots, but require a separate audio system. Any all in one with an attached lens would be my first choice. (This is coming from someone who owns one.)

    A little prosumer is a better choice, because you don’t need to worry about buying separate glass, or spending extra money on an audio system. Ideally, you’d be mixing the onboard mic with a lavaliere.

    Adorama often sells refurbs.

  • Avatar Image Caleb Herring said 3 months, 3 weeks ago:

    All great advice guys! Thanks for your help. Really the only reason I needed the funding for was traveling and audio/lighting. I didn’t want to keep it strictly here in Alabama. But, you got to do with what you got. I think I can work for a few hundred dollars for audio and lighting.

  • Avatar Image Caleb Herring said 3 months, 2 weeks ago:

    Could you guys help me out with coming up with questions?

  • Avatar Image said 3 months, 2 weeks ago:

    @raindancepictureshow said:
    Could you guys help me out with coming up with questions?

    I found that it was harder to be an “artist” in NY and LA unless you were lucky enough to have a trust fund. I found that it was good for the career side of things working mostly as a technician. The living expenses tend to be pretty high so you spend a lot of time thinking about how to pay for bills instead of being an “artist.” In a lower overhead place it might be easier to be an “artist.” You can just have a little job to pay basic bills and maybe have more time to do “artist” things.

    Maybe you could do a piece about someone trying to “make it” in the big bad city. Questions? I think they will come up as you shoot especially something that personal.